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Poster: little brother Date: Jan 23, 2005 11:24am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: quallity loss?

thankyou for your input, I will take this all into consideration. When you say "multi-tasking"

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Poster: glenn Date: Jan 24, 2005 5:27am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: quallity loss?

multi-tasking is using your computer for more than just burning, while burning. The nicest thing you can do for your friend, if you still have the shn or flac files is to burn her a master copy too, direct from the extracted wavs from your archive shns. Then she gets a master copy instead of first generation copy, and gives you a nice hug for thoughtfulness.

The best discs i've found for cheap are Taiyo Yuden 'whites.' discs that were overruns and already have a company name printed on tehm, which is covered with a nice thick coat of white lacquer. Taiyo Yuden is one of the patent holders, and their discs are all good, but the extra white lacquer on the top side makes them super durable. If you shop around, you can find TY whites as cheap as anything else worthwhile. Of course, if you are going to burn a hundred copies of the latest Fog Monster show, to pass out for free, just go with the cheapest discs you can find that work on your burner.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Jan 24, 2005 6:30am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: quallity loss?

if you still have the shn or flac files

And BTW you can "still" have those easily, long term, if you simply burn the files (plus .txt and/or .md5 files that may have come along with them) as data onto CD(s), just like you back up other data files from your PC.

It's handy to do that, especially for a show by a favorite band where you might want to make a lot of copies easily for friends, or worry that your audio copy might get scratched and unplayable sometime. Some friends might even want copies of the shn or flac fileset for themselves (then you just burn a data copy for them, from your data copy).

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Poster: little brother Date: Jan 24, 2005 12:53pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: quallity loss?

Okay now were getting somewhere, but now that I'm considering saving my favorite shows as data on cd and maybe sharing the files also as data, how is the best way to make a duplicat data disk? Would I use the disk copy with data ? I have never saved anything as data and know very little about it. thanke again!

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Jan 25, 2005 1:28am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: quallity loss?

If I already have a data disc I want to copy, to be safe and simple I like to copy the data disc contents over to the PC HD (drag and drop, just like from a floppy), then burn data copies onto blank CDs from there.

Your burning software probably has a tutorial on how to make data discs. In EZCD for instance, I think "data CD project" is just another option to select instead of "music CD project."

BTW one more thing- If you end up trading data filesets, then to make the most traders happy, save and copy the *original* shn or flac set you downloaded or traded from somewhere.

*Don't* do: flac d/l> your audio CD from that> your rip from your audio CD> a new set of flacs from that> copy/trade. That's generally a no-no.

Do this instead: flac d/l> your flac data CD> copy/trade.

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-01-25 09:28:10

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Poster: Uncle Jimmy Date: Jan 25, 2005 6:38am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: quallity loss?

Please, please, please do yourself a favor and just get a big, possibly external HD for shn/flac storage. Otherwise, you will end up with two sets of CDs for all your shows, and you will end up putting them back on your machine at some point. I don't even burn audio discs very often anymore, with the iPod and all. (yes, you cna put lossless music on an "MP3" player.)

Your CDs WILL FAIL at some point down the road. Plus, you have to lug them around. If you have one HD with your .wav files on it for burning and playing, and anoter HD with your archive shn/flac, then even if one fails completely, you still have everything on the other and can get it back.

Please. Don't waste more CDs.

YMMV, just my $.02,
-Jim

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Poster: little brother Date: Jan 25, 2005 1:44pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: quallity loss?

Thanks, that really sounds like the best long term solution, but what I'm mostly concerned with is the best way for coppying a show from the audio cd format. I can always redownload if thats the only way to assure cleanness, but it sound like I should be okay in most instanses to create a copy from a first generation disk. How ever,in the future when I come accross a show I really like and may want copies later on, I will also burn the data. So do I have to unzipp a zip file first so that the tracks are sepperated or can I simply retrieve the zip off a disk and then unzip?? Thanks again everyone....

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffgreenone Date: Jan 26, 2005 4:29am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: quallity loss?

Please, please, please do yourself a favor and just get a big, possibly external HD for shn/flac storage.

Yes, but...HD's fail too. I'd rather lose one show to a scratched CD than hundreds to a hard drive going up in flames.

The best protection, of course, is to trade your collection around, so you can get a copy from one of your trading partners. Reminds me of the Steven Wright joke: "I have a large seashell collection, which I keep scattered all over the beaches of the world...maybe you've seen it."

--Dave

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Poster: Uncle Jimmy Date: Jan 26, 2005 4:36am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: quallity loss?

just read the rest, baby. one for shn/flac, one for wav. lose one drive, recreate it with the other.

again, just my $.02

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Poster: little brother Date: Jan 26, 2005 4:00pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: quallity loss?

Why is it my cd's will eventually fail? Please explain because I kinda thought that taken proper care of they were forever, or like they dont fade in time as a tape might.

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Poster: Uncle Jimmy Date: Jan 26, 2005 9:16pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: quallity loss?

Not sure specifically "why" but some of my older ones have begun to flake. this was an ongoing source of discussion on the etree lists, and while there is no definitive answer as to a time limit, i.e. some types are much more or less durable than others, it still remained that these are not "100 year" devices. maybe 10 or so. don't know how old you are, but i have sweaters older than that.

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Poster: little brother Date: Jan 27, 2005 2:00pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: quallity loss?

I'm old enough to have had some of my disk well over ten years and , not to say I havent ended up with lottsa flakey copies too, but say the ones that I never cared much for and so haqVE NOT LISTENED TO AS MUCH,( OR NOT AT ALL) but these disk that stay in the case on the shelf, I believe like that they very well should last100 plus. Of course the favorites get exposed to all sorts of nasty enviroments, heat, cold, dust, and even spinning in players could caulse wear.
I have some disk that were bought when cd's were considered brand new tech. 80s hair, stuff better off on the shelf where it sits now. It looks and plays like new, if you're brave enough.
Of course I have old albums from the early 60's that look and play like new also. I can't really say about recorded disk, but it would seem that with good quallity burners and ect. there would'nt be a lot of difference. peace

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Poster: glenn Date: Jan 29, 2005 7:43am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: quallity loss?

cds and dvds are likely good for 5-10 years with use, longer with meticulous care, clean environment, no UV exposure etc.

Good News: The one way to keep archived data around forever is to continually copy it to new discs... and since these shn files are shared among thousands, if you find that one track or one disc or one show has 'gone bad', just let your friends know you need to replace it. somewhere there is still a good copy available. In other words, the more you share your shns and flacs, the longer they will last, regardless of if you save them to HDD or CD or DVD or 'New technology superduperdisc'... sharing music is the One True Perfect Archive Solution.

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Poster: little brother Date: Jan 29, 2005 1:54pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: quallity loss?

I DO AGREE WITH THIS 100%. aND i VERY MUCH respect your oppinion on the lifetime of a disk. So what you're saying is that if I burn a disk with well working equipment and the burn is successful, and then put it in a case and put the case in my safe, and don't touch it. Now if say my grandkids find this disk 60 years later(assuming they still have cd players) you don't believe it will play properly? Or perhaps not at all? I don't really know alot about how the info gets burned onto the disk, but is it the info on the disk that won't last , or the disk it's self?
And thanks again for your input, PEACE

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Poster: glenn Date: Jan 31, 2005 3:19am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: quallity loss?

The disc itself will fail eventually. Most plastics are to some extent volatile, and outgas vapor continuously. The plastic of the disc itself will eventually become brittle. However it seems likely that the disc will outlast the integrity of the data layer, as the pits and lands (1s and 0s, effectively) are microscopic, and can be affected by very small changes. Keeping the disc clean, unscratched, in a stable temperature and not exposed to prolonged UV (sunlight or fluorescent light etc.) will keep the disc 'good' for 'longer'. I think 60 years would be a mid-range optimistic estimate, but you can pretty much count on at least 5 years in reality, and some will last longer. In those 5 years, make shn or flac copies for 10 people, and the music could last forever, especially if those 10 make copies.
Use discs with a good solid opaque top layer and you increase your chances of lasting longer.

I don't make audio copies myself, I listen to shns on my computer, which is effectively my sound system. When shn files turn up 'bad' I usually can replace them real quick doing a search for the md5 string for the failed track... or contact some of my friends and see if they have it.

Always share your music a lot, and it will last forever. Maybe. It will likely outlast us at least.

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Poster: cwier60 Date: Jan 25, 2005 12:25am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: quallity loss?

It is perfectly acceptable to do a direct disc copy for a data disc (Roxio Disc Copier in your case). Alternatively, you could just use EZCD, using the original disc as the source material. Hopefully, your burner has burn-proof (or some similar buffer underrun prevention, which almost all burners now have) and your drive(s) are setup properly so that the disc-to-disc data transfer is faster than the burning speed. If you have only one drive (the burner), or if the drives aren't fast enough, then copy the files to the HD or create an image on the HD. This is all that CD Copier does if you copy with just one drive. There is an option to copy Source files to the HD first. It is safest to check it, but the copy time will increase since the files must first be copied to the HD before burning the disc.

Really, the only reason to use EZCD vs CD Copier is if you want to change the disc contents, e.g., to include an updated text file or shntool output. If you just want an exact duplicate of the original disc, CD Copier is the quickest way to go.